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tv   Geraldo at Large  FOX News  July 4, 2010 4:00am-5:00am EDT

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instantly sets a man apart is that his intelligence or talent arualed by his character and courage. i'm jon scott for fox news channel. captioned by closed captioning >> at large tonight, this independence day weekend, vice president joe biden making a surprise visit to iraq in a show of support for our troops. and to push iraq to move forward with a new government. good evening. i'm judge jeanine pirro. geraldo has the night off. we will be in tonight with david pipe his or her filed this report from baghdad. >> hi, janine. vice president biden's latest trip to iraq seems to have two missions, to celebrate the fourth of july with the troops and also perhaps to help the iraqi leaders sort out their differences.
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the vice president hasn't visited iraq since march's inconclusive election here but iraqi politicians haven't managed to sort out their differences and form a new government. as the politicians squabble. the militants try to fill the vacuum by launching attacks on security forces. there is also concern that the political uncertainty could continue into august when all but 50,000 u.s. troops are to leave by the end of that month. the vice president who is being accompanied by his wife has been the point man on iraq for the obama administration having visited here several times. he has already had meetings with u.s. ambassador to iraq chris hill and a top american merchant commander in iraq general ray odierno. the vice president is also likely to meet with all major political leaders here in iraq. back to you janine. >> will the vice president be able to get the iraqis to step up? sara carter is the national security correspondent with "the washington examiner."
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she joins us from our d.c. bureau. sarah, what's it going to take to get them to step up? >> it's going to take a lot of effort on the part of vice president biden. you know, we have been pretty much hands off with their internal political situation for quite a while now in iraq. but, you know, with the drawdown date looming and just 50,000 troops being left, i think this administration really wants to see the iraqi government push forward and solidify something. so, biden, i believe, this trip is -- is that true most important issue for him right now is to move the process forward. and hopefully he will be able to do that it's going to be very difficult though. it's not going to be easy for him to do. this you know, obviously the sectarian differences run deep. and he will have to make some type of concession. and also he could just say, make a point of saying you know what? you haven't solidified us yet. give us this and we will be your ally and stick with you. >> right. kind of shifting to afghanistan
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now, now that we have general petraeus over there, the question now is what's going to happen with our afghan strategy. is that going to change a lot now that mcchrystal is out? >> you know, i don't believe the strategy will change much. but what will change is that i believe general petraeus will take a very close look at the rules of engagement. he has already made that perfectly clear during the hearings. these rules of engagement which were much more stringent under mcchrystal to try to lessen civilian cawcialghts is something that he is going to take a close look at how commanders are implementing those rules on the ground. some of those rules the troops believe put their lives at risk. i was out there last october with the troops. i spent more than a month with them. i'm heading back out again this year. so, there were a lot of difficulties for the troops on the ground. i can tell you that. >> you know, sara, a lot of troops have been openly contemptuous regarding this whole issue of the rules of engagement. this is something that the obama administration has basically embraced. what we are saying is that the
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military is at risk because there is so much concern for the civilians in afghanistan to reduce the number of civilian casualties that maybe we're taking greater risks with our own soldiers. >> that's right. you are 100% right on janine. when i was out there with our troops last october, there was -- this was a big issue. a story i wrote about actually on these rules of engagement where we were on a mission and one of the rules is is that you have to warn the villagers before you go in that you are going to be going into the village. and, you know, by that time, the insurgents flee. they have moved the weapons. >> of course. >> also, you can't go into the village unless you are accompanied by afghan army or police. and a lot of times they just never showed up. so there is a lot of issues that our troops are facing over there. i really think that general petraeus is going to take a close look at this. whether he will change those, i don't know. >> i think he is going to have to. i think that the military is really very upset about. this but sarah thank you for your report. now. >> thank you so much. >> turning to the chairman of
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the republican national committee michael steele is again under fire tonight nor comments he made at a connecticut fundraiser. let's take a look. >> this was a war of obama's choosing. this is not something that the united states had actively prosecuted or wanted to engage in. he is such a student of history, has he not understood that, you know, that's the one thing you don't do is engage in a land war war in afghanistan. all right? because everyone who has tried over a thousand years of history has failed. >> what he said in that connecticut fundraiser was absolutely wrong. and it is an insult to the american military, which has fought this war. i can't tell you how disappointed i am with that really knuckle headed comment. he is going to have to take the public stage and take his licking there and say basically, you know, he misspoke. it was not a war of our choosing it was a war of the al qaeda and
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taliban's choosing when he came to our stores. when al qaeda came to our shores on 9/11 launching attacks from bases inside afghanistan. >> ouch. karl rove isn't the only one criticizing steele's latest gaffe. here is molly henneberg with the latest fallout from washington. >> janine republican national committee chairman michael steele has sent out an email to some republican supporters in part because he said he needs to, quote, clarify his remarks about afghanistan. but bill kristol, a conservative, and editor of "the weekly standard," has said steele should resign. and now liz cheney, daughter of the former vice president and chairman of keep america safe, has said, quote, the chairman of the republican party must be unwavering in his support for american victory in the war on terror. a victory that cannot be accomplished if we do not prevail in afghanistan. it she goes on to say it is time for chairman steele to step down. this follows steele's comments at a private connecticut fund raiser that were captured on camera. he said the war in afghanistan was, quote, a war of obama's
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choosing and that everyone who has tried to win a land war in afghanistan over the past 1,000 years has, quote, failed. now in a statement and an email to supporters steele says, quote: as we have learned throughout history, winning a war in afghanistan is a difficult task. we must also remember that after the tragedy of september 11th, 2001, it is also a necessary one. the stakes are too high for us to accept anything but success in afghanistan. an rnc spokesman says steele believes president obama owes the american people an explanation of his, quote, strategy for winning the war in afghanistan. janine? >> thanks, molly. fox news political analyst susan estridge joins me now. susan, once you have alienated karl rove, are your days numbered? >> well, maybe. but not necessarily, janine. i have been in these fights on the other side where somebody has decided we need to get rid
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of the dnc chair and sometimes with good reason. and whether they succeed or not depends at least in part on what the relationship is between the chair and all those members of the committee who frankly are useless and nameless to most people but have to vote to get rid of them. >> aren't democrats delighted with the fact that michael steele maybe making so many gaffes? we have a few of them. some of the major gafs that have gone through. >> you are mean, janine. >> no. number one. afghanistan is a war of choice. >> it's not a more of choice. we went there 10 years ago. abortion is an individual choice to some people it is. but to the major wing of the republican party, a great deal of them it's not. and the promise to make the g.o.p. more hip hop. i don't know what that's about. in fact,. >> i like that one. >> we have a sound here from ken blackwell who is the former ohio
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secretary of state. in terms of a comment about a little more hip hop as members. i think we have that coming up. do we have that? >> he would be insulted if someone would say that he was a racial preference choice much the rnc that race was the determining factor in his elevation to that position. that would have been nonsense and this notion that this disturbing pattern of gaffes and missteps is now being criticized solely because he is black. and that barack obama is being criticized for his big government power grab solely because he is black. that is nonsense. >> well, that takes that issue off the table. but the -- susan, when he talks about rush limbaugh, the four gaffe he made saying that the guy, his rhetoric is incendiary and ugly, i mean he has alienated the military, the president, the democrats, most
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republicans, you know, and, by the way, he said no one has ever conquered afghanistan. alexander the great did, cong did. the british did a couple of times. i mean, where do you think he is coming from on this stuff? >> well, you know, people generally don't become party chair because they are experts on foreign policy. i mean, the truth of the matter is that the job is about raising money. and at the end of the day, it's about raising money and inside politics. now, i wouldn't like to be in his chair right now. on the other hand, you probably have too, janine. i have been on fox news with him dozens of times. is he a gentleman. i think is he a honorable guy. >> here is the bottom line. susan, your point is well taken. the guy has got to raise money. you don't raise money by alienating a whole wing of the republican party. you know the national security people, the people who think that we need to protect
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americans from the attacks like 9/11 and think raise money. i think you made the point earlier, siewnge, you talked about who is the rnc, these nameless faceless people it takes two thirds of 163 of them. by the way he is out in january anyway. at the end of the day, we have got a guy who really is as ed rendell says a gift that keeps on giving. i think we have got that sound bite here. >> chairman steele is a gift that keeps on giving for democrats. so wield like him to stay without any ifs, ands, and buts. the comments were stupid. first of all, we went in afghanistan under president bush. and everybody, democrats and republicans alike supported that effort to go into afghanistan. afghanistan was harboring the people responsible for what happened on 9/11. it was nobody's choice. it was done because we had to do it. we continue to have a to do it. >> susan, stand by. we're coming back to you on this show later. but up next, find out what arizona police are being told on a controversial new training
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video. ooo
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i got an egg a candy necklace an orange a band-aid a stamp helium i got a mustache [pop] lipstick >> the only ones left out hanging to dry here is law enforcement on this. either way we go, we are going to have elements on each side of the argument accusing us of misconduct. that's one of my concerns with this law. >> even if you are on firm ground, there are people out there who are not going to
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believe this is not racially motivated. the reason they have those thoughts are is because historically across the nation we have had a few bad apples. >> that's from the training video just released to police agencies in arizona. the video confronts the issue of racial profiling head on as police are about to begin enforcing that controversial law that gives officers the authority to detain anyone they believe may be in this country illegally. joining me now, former congressman j.d. hayworth who running against senator john mccain in the arizona republican primary. also from phoenix sheriff joe arpaio who is no stranger to the fight against illegal immigration. and from washington the director of immigration for the national council of la raza. the largest hispanic civil rights organization in the united states. i'm going to go to congressman hayworth first. congressman, for some time you have advocated for laws specifically like 1070 that passed in arizona. but at the same time, there
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seems to be a tremendous resistance by the obama administration. what -- congressman, you are running for senate. what can we do now to resolve this problem? >> well, janine, as you know, five years ago i introduced the enforcement first act. while i was doing that john mccain was teaming with ted kennedy to write the amnesty bill that they introduced not once but twice that would cost american taxpayers $2.6 trillion. in retirement benefits alone for illegals granted citizenship. and janine, i have to tell you when i heard our president speak earlier this week i was struck by the fact that it seemed that he was unilaterally declaring surrender. that he is not interested in enforcing the law. that, instead, is he taking a point of view that is really the exact opposite of his campaign slogan we all recall yes, we can. well, now when it comes to the border, our president is saying no, we can't. we can't possibly enforce the border. janine, to put it politely, but
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bluntly, that's hogwash. >> i know that term and happen to like it. clarissa, what about that? what about the fact that the president gave a speech this week. didn't talk about the arizona law being unconstitutional. didn't say that it called for racial profiling. remember the comment he made, you know, about a month ago saying you go to get ice cream with your kids and you can be arrested. and he didn't talk about pressing the lawsuit against arizona. what is going on? is the obama administration backing off this? >> well, i think what the president tried to do, as you know, the governor in arizona has said that one of the reasons for this law is because the federal government has enacted. and i think what the president tried to do was to put out the case that we can fix this problem at the federal level. and i wouldn't say that he threw in the towel. quite the contrary. the obama administration has been putting more boots on the border and i think mr. hayworth would know that if he did his homework. but the reality is. >> i have done my homework. i have done my homework,
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clarissa. >> hold on. let me get to the sheriff right now. sheriff, you are there. you are in maricopa county and by the way cued dotes to -- dude kudos to you have you been elected five times sheriff. are -- on theward. >> i was there four years with drug enforcement. let me tell you something about the so-called racial profiling. i think i'm being sued by la raza. the justice department launched an investigation 60 days in the obama administration. came here to try to find out my deputy's racial profile. year and a half. nothing has happened yet. we -- 40,000 people we have arrested, investigated, or detained. 40,000. >> not a one case of racial profiling. is that correct, joe? >> wait a minute. the justice department has been here for a year and a half. going after me. i'm the poster boy. there is a couple lawsuits,
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which i think la raza is part of that aclu, which is not going to go anywhere. >> sheriff, let me stop this for a second. claris sarks the truth is, there has not been one finding of racial profiling. the sheriff is right about that and this law specifically is harsher and tougher on law enforcement than the federal law. this law specifically makes it illegal to use racial profiling. yes or no? >> well, i think you heard the chief of tucson talk about this. and the predicament that it puts on -- >> sanctuary city. >> okay so now the voice of one sheriff matters more than another? i mean, there are. >> well, four or five chiefs of police? >> clarissa,. >> law enforcement all around the country. >> clarissa, more on the immigration debate in two minutes. stay with us. e e e e e e e e e
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>> we're back with j.d. hayworth. sheriff arpaio and clarissa martinez. we had a spirited discussion. sheriff, you were talking about with clarissa the issue of the number of racial profiling cases that have occurred and that there hasn't been one finding. although apparently there have been investigations you said for the last year and a half? >> by the justice department. you know, thank god for j.d. when he gets to washington, at least i will have someone to support me and back me up. i don't seem to get much support, especially from some u.s. senatorsor politicians. but i don't need it. we are doing the right thing. >> you are certainly supporting j.d. hayworth in his race against john mccain. >> and proud of it. >> you make that decision why, sheriff, why? >> because he has been around for five years. he has been talking about this. it's not politically expedient
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for him to do it now like some other polices. it's a political issue. that's what the problem is with this illegal immigration. so, j.d. has been doing it five years. and is he going to continue to do it. >> j.d., if you were to be elected to the united states senate. what difference do you think you could makes a one person in washington. >> well, janine, i think election day is going to make a big difference nationally. i will tell you, this going to washington, d.c. is a senator from a border state, one of my first actions will be to reintroduce the own forcement first act to make sure what is happening here in arizona in fact happens nationwide so that we enforce existing immigration law. that we return to the original intent of the 14th amendment and that we supplement the border patrol with our military and get serious on the border. understand the irony. a couple of days -- >> clarissa, what is the problem with that? what is the problem with what j.d. is saying? >> secure i support a solution.
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we have been 25 years. >> what's the problem with securing the border. >> i am getting to that we have been putting money on the border. i think you have heard that over 20 years we have over 20,000 people on the border. we cannot solve it just alone with that i support a solution. >> no, no, no. clarissa, are you saying that our border should not be secure? >> i think -- i don't think that you heard me say that. >> i'm asking the question. i'm asking you that question. what is the answer to the question. >> of course we support secure borders. but what we have been doing so far hasn't fixed the problem. so doing more of the same alone, when we have seen for 20 years it hasn't worked, takes us down the same road. i support a solution where we fix illegal immigration system, we put meaningful enforce. >> what does that mean? how do we fix the system? how do we fix it, clarissa? we have 12 million illegal hes
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in this country what do we do with them? >> right now we have a system where people cannot come with a visa so they come a smuggler. what we need is a legal system that works that takes pressure off. in the country illegally. >> clarissa, no country can possibly handle the numbers of people who get free education, medication, housing, i mean, how many people should we take? >> wants people to play by the rules. that's why we should require people who are in the country illegally to get good with the law. they need to pay taxes. measures want people to play by the rules. let's make people play by the rules. >> j.d., let me ask you this. if i'm living in belgium and i'm trying to come to the united states and i'm waiting for a visa, is it fair that other people can snub their nose at the law and say to the person in belgium, you know what? that's your problem. i'm closer, i will just walk over the border. >> it's not only wrong for the belgians who want to immigrate here illegally it's wrong for the mexican who's want to
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immigrate here illegally to be shun to the back of the line and make special accommodation for law breakers. no to amnesty, yes to enforcement first, and what we heard from clarissa is dancing around the point. again, asking for amnesty. >> solution is not amnesty. nobody is talking. >> you have declared surrender, clarissa. it's shameful. we need control of our borders. >> please. >> clarissa, i'm telling the absolute truth. you are dancing around the issue. >> you are closer to the ground here, sheriff. what's going on with the drugs? the drug cartels? we just had a governor in mexico who was a gubernatorial candidate killed. real fast. >> there is a lot of violence there. i will tell you what we are locking up the illegals in the interior. everybody talks about the border. let's enforce the law also in the united states of america. >> okay. all right. j.d. hayworth. sheriff joe arpaio. clarissa martinez. thank you for joining us in this always passionate discussion. al gore's accuser is speaking
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out. >> i went into much deeper shock as i realized it appeared he was demanding sexual favors or sexual behaviors. i decided to clarify -- i got so so freaked i got a tiny bit mad under my terror. xoxr your laten
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to >> >> she has never lied any time, not one time as long as her and
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i have known each other would she ever make up a story. i don't care how are. high profile, whatever, you come to oregon, do you, this you need to be accountable. if there is d.n.a. like the story says, hey, let's get the evidence. you know what? if you didn't do something, you would not mind coming back here and giving some d.n.a. evidence to show you're innocent. >> al gore a crazed sex poodle? poodle owners everywhere including yours truly are offended. al gore is experiencing his own inconvenient truth as the portland, oregon police reopened their investigation into whether gore got a little too grabby during a massage. a spokesman for gore issued this statement:
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joining me now to talk about whether or not the victim has a real case or the alleged victim jennifer flowers, alleged victim of sexual abuse by former president clinton. pat brown, criminal profiler as well as susan estrich fox news analyst and former sex crimes prosecutor. now, let me just say one thing. the comments about the tabloids, isn't this the enquirer, i think that came out with this? they are the ones that broke the stories on john edwards. they broke the story on tiger woods and now they are breaking this story. but the first thing i'm going to do or the first person i'm going to go to here is jennifer flowers. all right. jennifer, you had your own scenario with bill clinton and it wasn't until you came out with those phone calls that you recorded that people said, you know, this really happened, that there was a sexual relationship.
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what is is this stlad claims she was sexually mulled by al gore. what is she thinking? >> like you said, the phrase sex crazed poodle. [ laughter ] how serious does that really sound? but i can tell you that what she is about to go through will rock her world. whether she is telling the truth or isn't. >> what can she expect? you know, when you made the accusations against bill clinton. he was the president at the time. you know, right now al gore is not in office what can she expect to happen to her as a result of this ache tremendous amount of resources that he will use to discredit her. like i said, whether she is truth or isn't. it's going to be a very bumpy ride for her. >> pat brown, you are a criminal profiler. we don't know the whole story
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yet. there is an allegation, i can't wait to get to an bremmer on this. there is an allegation she was pinned down and didn't run out. here is the thing and i think this is very important. in 2006 is when i believe she said this happened and then at the end of 2006. and then at the end of 2009, she ends up being interviewed by the portland police. and now, of course, it's come out. what -- how does this bhol thing strike you? >> i'm sorry, the whole thing seems laughable to me. i'm sorry. i really support women who have been sexually assaulted terribly much. this story just wreaks. i'm sorry. >> why? >> shear woman who is old enough to know when you go to a man's hotel room at a certain hour and he has been drinking and you go in there and give him his massage which is he naked, i'm sorry, most women who do that come from escort services, they are usually prostitutes. i'm not saying she is one. if she came from a legitimate agency or through the legitimate
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agency, really has a massage table and comes to the hotel, i don't know the circumstances where she came from, but, if she did, okay, so she is giving him a massage. let's face it we are all grown up girls here. if i'm not a prostitute and gave a naked guy a massage when he is drunk. >> masseuse services. she has been a masseuse for huck hogan and his family and counting crows and a lot of hotel players. it's nothing new. what are you looking for here. >> we are not talking about a sexual assault. he touched her butt, you know. >> ann bremmer? >> in a case like, this what's worse being called a sex crazed poodle or lummex. she says she has a witness. she says there is surveillance tape. she left of center says there is d.n.a. tonight we want people to be fair. the portland sheriff's department is coming out and to be fair to both sides. they can look at these things and make a determination whether
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it's he said or she said on its face. >> what did he do? >> i don't even know -- >> what did he do? >> he grabbed her buttocks, her breast and everything else. he kissed her and all this other crazy stuff. you know what's so ironic about this. we have got a -- you know al gore trying to distance himself from bill clinton when this kind of thing happened to clinton. let's hear it. >> i was bill clinton's lover for 12 years. and for the past two years i have lied to the press about our relationship to protect him. >> you may be floored by this next comment but check out what al gore said of his running mate and friend then president bill clinton in the summer of 1999 on his with a young woman named monica lewenski.
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>> is this hypocrisy on the part of al gore? susan? >> well, you know, i think that might be his most serious crime here. look, as well as the other ladies, and i was glad to hear it. i think we all stand on the side. i'm one, others are victims who were sexually abused. i think the danger here is that this crazed sex poodle thing, i mean, even if it was a tasteless embrace, i'm not sure i can conceive of any scenario where this amounts to a serious crime. and i think even her choice of words as a poodle owner i will say it too. >> you have a poodle, too? , susan? >> it's not the same as, you know, the experience many of us have had or lived through or prosecuted or dealt with professionally. >> but, suture, she is not alleging rape. she is alleging some kind of sexual assault. i don't think she is alleging rape. this is what is interesting.
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two points. in 2009. the actual police complaint was made. her lawyer had approached the police after this happened in 2006. now, in october of that year, the gores by an million dollars mansion. and interestingly enough, al and tipper gore transfer all of their assets in tennessee to a limited liability corporation which is a way to protect your assets from legal claims. now, if there is nothing to worry about, why would he be doing that why would they be doing it number one and number two, ann bremner, you have represented the portland police department, why did they reopen the case if there is nothing new that's come down the pike in three years? >> well, they are a wonderful department first off. and the fact is what they said is that first they wanted to make sure it went up the chain of command when it didn't back in 2006. they wanted to make sure that they have a full investigation like i said to be fair to everybody. so that's what they are doing. they are totally transparent. and gore's people said that this
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will help him to have the investigation it certainly will help her. >> viewed her did not take it up the chain of command. i find it impossible in any police department having worked with cops for 30 years that somebody didn't say hey, she made a complaint against al gore. jennifer, pat, susan, ann. thank you all. coming up next, james bond and middle america? how did a group of russian spies get away with it? >> announcer: here's a special free offer for men who are losing their hair. >> my hair always looks great, and i feel great. >> if you want to look better and if you want to feel better about yourself, hair club is the way to go. >> announcer: men, you know that getting your hair back will make you look good and improve your self-confidence like no diet or exercise program. it's a proven fact that having a thicker, fuller head of hair makes you look and feel younger, healthier, and sexier. you can get your hair back just by calling hair club. call now. >> i'm 52, and i look better now than i did when i was in my 40s.
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>> an agent will travel to new york city to kill the president. the name of the agent is evelyn salt. >> my name is evelyn salt. >> then you are a russian spy. >> you can hear me, johnny? you got confused. you botched your own cover. you are an assassin working for the united states government. >> it's a story right out of the spy movie. illegal russian agents posing as u.s. citizens. nine cold war leftovers are behind bars tonight, one being bailed by a federal judge, accused of conspiracy to act as an agent of a foreign government without not phiing the united states attorney general. all but one also faced money laundering charges. here is david lee miller with a report. >> janine, all of the accused russian spies arrested in the u.s. remain behind bars tonight as the truth begins to emerge
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about their secret lives. prosecutors say michael and patricia, who neighbors describe as an ordinary couple raising two young children in arlington, virginia have 'fessed up to using fake both were in court on friday. for the second time their bail hearing has been postponed. authorities say they had two safe deposit boxes filled with $100,000 in cash, as well as fake passports. as for the couple's kids, court papers say they will be sent back to russia to live with relatives. in boston, authorities are still trying to figure out who this couple is. an accused spy using the name donald heathfield reportedly assumed the i.d. of a six month old canadian child who died in 1963. his presumed wife, who calls herself tracy leann folly asked the court refer to her as simply defendant number 5. bail hearings for the couple are slated to take place later this month. and more murky details about the life of accused spy anna
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chapman. despite having a facebook page of dozens of pictures and video. much of her past continues to remain a mystery. chapman's ex-husband says she told him that her father worked for the kjb. as for her arrest for spying, anna chapman's ex said he was not surprised. janine? >> thanks, david. as more information comes out it seems these alleged spies used tricks of the trade that james bond would be proud of. from high tech gadgets to high school brush passes like the ones you are watching right now. here to show us just how the pros do it are two legendary spies and we're delighted to have them in studio tonight. 35 year veteran of cia clandestine operations and head of the international spy museum peter earnest and the former head of kgb operations in america olla klugman. gentlemen, you have brought something with you tonight? >> well, janine, we have brought a few objects here. and i shoved tell you these are obtainable commercially right in
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the store here. >> you are going to show us what a brush path looks like. let's get to it? >> certainly can do that if you would like to do that. >> i'm going to stay seated here. >> keep in mind, janine, that normally this would be done either going up or down stairs so that you are out of sight of surveillance. we are going to do the mechanics, okay? not meant to be a magic trebek trick. >> okay. that's why the bag says spy. >> that's right. we thought you would get a kick out of that. >> and i did. >> all right. so i'm simply going to -- we're going to pass behind your chair and we'll do that right now. all right. any mean to kick your chair. all right? and what we did we simply exchanged bags. and that is a brush pass. that the idea is you do it when you are temporarily out of sight so surveillance can't see it. we'll go back and do it in reverse. >> okay.
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same thing, i hoped the audience noticed that the bags this time one was in red and one was in black so you could see we versed it that's the idea. it may an a magazine or briefcase or something like that. >> now, with all due respect, and you have some other items here, this seems very 1950. i mean, is this really what's going on in the high tech age? >> okay. just a couple of quick comments. these things that they were using is classic espionage spy craft. but if they are doing it under the eyes of the best counter surveillance outfit in the world, the fbi, it's going to be transparent. they were also using, as you heard, high tech stuff. these laptops that were modified to send burst transmissions in code incrypted and burying a message in something that looks like a normal picture.
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that's pretty high tech. these things we brought here you can pick up anywhere. this is a can and it opens so that things could be concealed in there. >> interesting. people can pick these up and hide something. little concealed cameras. there you are. same sort of thing. you can buy these in the store, too. it's concealed to look like a rock. and put your house keep in there. okay? and put it out with a bunch of rocks and just looks like a normal rock. >> it seems so simple and so almost are archaic. is this what high tech counter intelligence is about? >> if it's done properly, yes. >> put it this way, there have been a lot of progress in intelligence collection process, but the old fashioned ways have remained. and, in fact, the brush contacts or hiding places in some
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secluded areas in the remote areas away from the metropolitan, you know, centers, this has been powerful espionage for decades. >> let's assume stuff like this is going on and anna chapman, the attractive one, is sending messages she says to a family member. these people charged with conspiracy to act as unregistered agent of a foreign government. if i'm james bond i'm not going to do a brush pass tonight because i haven't register with the attorney general. >> what that means is they are not charging them with espionage. >> why not? >> transfer of information or items? >> no. it's the same reason that we charged the mafia with tax evasion. that's the only way you can get them. apparently, they don't have evidence of classified information or something in exchange. >> don't have sufficient evidence to charge them with espionage. that's why they have been charged with, you know, money laundering. >> how about the couple that dug up the money that was there for two years in 2006? >> well, that indicates that
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they had something else. >> government giving them money to do this? >> but of course. >> that's right. and you have to ask yourself why. the top levels of the government are going to be aware of this. confirmed that for me. why have they invested the time and money and labor in doing this if they are not getting some product or they don't expect a product? >> interesting just medvedev meeting with the president, i mean, you know, recently and so. >> to me, the whole affair looks like a waste of time, money, and human resources. >> interesting. >> look, absolutely. i have been involved in espionage for decades. >> stand by. when we come back. we will hear what russians are saying about the spy arrest.
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>> i was so real, so excited. inspirational was the only thing i could think of. i knew in the long term it would mean a lot to me because it is just some kind of -- stays in your head for a while. and makes you -- for a while, so. >> that was the bond girl herself. anna chapman. we are back with former cia agent peter earnest and-ola of the kgb. came from russia as a teen and still has deep ties to the community. what are people saying about these arrests in this community. >> people are laughing, they think it's funny. they are not taking it seriously at all. >> do you think that's because they think that this is old stuff or that it doesn't happen
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anymore? >> they think it's old stuff obviously there is enough evidence to show it has been going on. we have people who have already confessed. however, the such olds ways of doing business, that it's pathetic. >> is t. did kind of look archaic. owe oleg. were there a lot of spies in the united states. you were cia for 35 years. you guys are the james bonds out there. how serious is this problem and they haven't been charged with infiltrating a government agency. they haven't been charged with sending information back. or in, you know, espionage. why not? >> i think this problem is often under estimated. since the collapse of the ussr, many people in the united states and in the west, generally, thought that the old soviet
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espionage establishment is destroyed. not true. ever since the current russian prime minister and former president putin, former kgb guy took over, the soviet intelligence has been russian -- reactivated. the united states used to be enemy number one, to day it's priority number one. that's their official lingo of the russian community. >> peter, what are they looking for? you know, what is going on if, you know, the cold war is no more allegedly why do they have people here anyway. >> the cold war is over. intelligence goes on. they have always engaged in intelligence overtly. i don't think we should underestimate this. we have never seen a network like this where one gets caught. something had to justify keeping these people. one thing they can do is talent. talent spotting. they can look for other people in the government who may look
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vulnerable to recruitment. >> all right. i guess the only question right now is whether or not they are going to end up being deported. whether or not they are going to jail. i think the sentence is five years. anyway, that's it for us tonight. be sure to tune in tomorrow night for the latest on the missing oregon boy and the tiger woods settlement. plus a special july fourth celebration. thanks for watching. hi geraldo.
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